Monday, 18 February 2013

Tickle Tackled

As you all know this site has been the subject of legal action. We have no intention of boring you with the details but a few things must be said.

There is a court order for Google Inc to disclose the IP address of the owner of this blog as well as of certain 'named' commenters which are based in the EU. The pseudonyms of the affected comments are listed below and those concerned should urgently seek legal advice.

"The official FISHEL"
"non-apikores"
"Betrayed Former Supporter"
"Hersh"
"M055AD"
"Playing with fire"
"Shia"
"Ger - (woman with brain)"
"Be a Mentch!"
"DSM IV 302.89"
"Kazuhide Uekusa"
"Antwerpian"
"Stamford Hill'er"
"Ben Tzion"
"Laurence Davis"
"Velvel"
"The Curtain Falls"
"Simche"
"r''l"
"r"l strikes again"
"Avi"
"now I understand"

In addition there are the following "Anonymous"  posts which are also subject to the Order:

18/11/12 19:07
20/11/12 07:35
20/11/12 08:55
21/11/12 01:28
22/11/12 00:00
25/11/12 18:51
27/11/12 12:10

Those affected can write to iytulegaldefence@hushmail.com for some assistance.

A number of those affected by the order have already obtained legal advice and as a result of that advice all comments have been removed from the posts dealing with the Halpern saga, to protect those that have commented. While only a fraction of the comments could potentially be defamatory, the numbers are such that it would be too time consuming to sift through them and delete just those that could be problematic. Hopefully with time and crowd sourcing the questionable comments can be removed and the remaining comments restored.

Make no mistake however: this blog is not going away. This debate has always been primarily about the scandalous failure and hypocrisy of the UOHC's entire rabbinical and lay leadership from the very top down and for which no one has to date taken any responsibility. No libel law in the world will stop this blog from saying that. Comments on this and related matters will continue to be published though due to legal constraints there will be heavier editing which will result in comments taking longer to get through.

Finally we would like to thank the very many people who have offered support in every form, including financial, legal, technological, moral and spiritual. It is heartening to know that we have the backing of a sizeable community willing to stand up for the truth. We may appeal to you in the near future for contributions to a legal fighting fund and information will be posted accordingly.

This has never been a case of Golders Green against Stamford Hill, Chasidim against Litvaks, LBD against Kedassia or Modern Orthodox versus Ultra Orthodox. This is a campaign of decency against thuggery, justice against injustice and truth against obfuscation, deceit and outright lies. It may take long and it will be tough but the people behind this campaign will see it through to the end and will fight for what is just and right.

Our motto to this campaign is:
והדרך צלח ורכב על דבר אמת וענוה צדק ותורך נוראות ימינך - תהילים מה, ד

And in thy majesty prosper, ride on in the cause of truth and meekness and righteousness; and let thy right hand teach thee awesome things. (Psalms 45,4)

64 comments:

Good Purim said...

Oh Dear Charlie, you are in a right mess now!!!
All the names listed are all me just named as loads of other names.

I hope to see you on Purim and we can have things out over a glass of wine.

help said...

How is there any way top know if we are from the anonymous without seeing the comments?
If i commented from the US am I protected under the first amendment?

Hot off the press - part 1 said...

Thank you IYTU for sustaining the fight against corruption in our community. By our community I mean the many hundreds of families in London who subscribe to what is widely referred to as chareidi yiddishkeit. For those of you who do not understand what that means, let me explain. We put our yiddishkeit first, we are concerned by influences from beyond our world, we worry about kashrus, we want our children to be Bnei Torah and Bnos Chayil, and we seek guidance from rabbonim and Daas Torah, etc. etc.

The ugly saga that has unfolded in London over the past few months has been an affront to us, not because of IYTU or the role of the internet, nor because it dealt with a matter all of us do not want to discuss around our shabbos tables, or at all. The real reason it has sickened us is because, as Tickle has said so eloquently, we suddenly realised that the 'king has no clothes'. Those who lead the umbrella organisation that is the public face of our community are a bunch of clowns and goons, incompetent and corrupt, not worthy of leading us or representing us.

IYTU has been our voice. The very nature of our community has meant that we could not give names to our voices, but that has not diminished the relevance, nor the authenticity of what it is we have said. We have fought a good fight - and will continue to do so - against those who may appear to be part of our community, but who in reality are destroying it from within.

So, Ashrecha IYTU, and Ashreichem to all those who have been moved to comment on this blog. You are the voice of the people, and you are the reason that our kehilla will still exist when all this has died down and is in the past.

But now, back to business! A few points for those who need clarification.

(1) The court order, which I have seen a copy of, dealt only with comments made up until the end of November, hence the omission of some of the commenters you might have expected to be on that list, including yours truly. I am assuming that this was a cost decision, although I do not doubt that this court order has cost the CH campaign northwards of 50k.

(2) If you commented from the United States you are protected by the First Amendment, but only if your comments would not be considered defamation in the US. So, for example, "r"l" and "r"l strikes again", who both specified details of the accusations against CH, if they commented from the US, would not be protected by the First Amendment. However, the CO specifically calls for IP addresses from the EU, and then goes on to list all the pseudonyms. It is unclear if Google will hand over all the IP addresses, and then CH's lawyers will have to determine which ones come from the EU and which ones come from the US (or elsewhere, like Israel); or if Google will only send the EU IP addresses.

More to follow . . . . . . . . .

Hot off the press - part 2 said...

(3) Although the GD rabbonim have remained quiet, as have others who support their position, there is a clear consensus among them that by going to court CH has crossed a red line and that this might not serve him well in the long run. Vehamayvin yovin.

(4) There are those in the community who are saying that CH is guilty of what he has been accused of and will therefore never take this action further. I could not disagree more. CH's guilt or innocence has nothing to do with this. It is clear that he is willing to take unbelievable risks to clear his name, and that no step is too outrageous, no tactic too undignified. So if you are concerned that something you have posted is potentially libelous, you have reason to seek legal advice, even if it makes no sense to you that CH will take this further. Remember - Dayan L was falsely accused by someone of libel and slander, and was forced to endure a long and expensive libel trial before he was exonerated.

That is all I wish to say for the moment.

Much more to follow . . . . . . .

guesswhoiam said...

This is the saddest day for yiddishkeit. First there are 30 vitims and now 30 are in trouble for libel.

Wow said...

guesswhoiam said...
This is the saddest day for yiddishkeit. First there are 30 vitims and now 30 are in trouble for libel.

18 February 2013 20:03


Could they be the same 30 people who knew what they are writting?


HOTP, who was matir him to go to court? Does he not have to follow MEzeeeeeerah guidlines?
Or is there a special rule for those who are a cut above the rest?

Comments said...

Please can you post at least the main parts of the comments referred to in the CO, so people can decide whether they need to seek advice. This is especially true for the anonymous ones.

Kudos for taking the bull by thehorns.

Anonymous said...

When the court order arrives at the goyishe employers of yiedden who used work devices, these people will lose their jobs. School fees won't get paid, kids won't have what to eat. This is unbeleviable.

PROXY SERVER USER said...

Are you fighting this? If yes, do you need help raising the money? I'm not rich but I'll spare a few hundred pounds for this genuinely good cause. I've emailed you on the new address about it and to everyone reading -please join in if Tickle needs it, he's done a great service to the community and doesn't deserve to be intimidated by CH's big fat chequebook.

GGMan said...

I'm in for £5K and I will raise £25K for you by Friday pm b'n.

I will email you separately with details. Thx.

Anonymous said...

How much do you need to raise to fight CH/Hamlyns? Please post £ target.

Absolutely Anonymous said...

Fare thee well, ye blogs of Tickle Me,
Fare thee well, ye Anonymous mores.
There's no frocks that will mourn the loss of ye;
Poor IP loggers are weary.

It's march doon the dock, and swear on the bible,
Packs on your back and police vans away.
Waiting your turn while the legal begals play their tune,
And the song that they're playing is eerie.

My current IPv4 address is 192.168.144.32,
But I don't know if that helps because I'm on a LAN.
Al pi din Torah are Google now mosrim?
I'll have to change my homepage to dinonline.

SH educated said...

I have no idea if RCH is guilty or innocent.
But none of you need worry. The order he got was easy. It was not defended so all he needed to do was bring to the court the most libellous comments and obviously would get his order.And Google of course don't care.
RCH cannot risk going to court in a defended action. He would have to prove that he was unjustly defamed. To all practical purposes it would be him that is on trial. What does he do if he loses?
Almost certainly the original GD would be brought in by the defence.
DCE would definitely be subpoeaned as would DL and others. And possibly, indeed likely, some of the alleged victims. Cross examination of the (self-styled) victims by RCH's counsel wouldn't be all that easy for them especially with the defence counsel holding her/their hands (sorry! unintended pun).
More tomorrow.

Case law said...

From:Smith v ADVFN Plc & Ors [2008] EWHC 1797 (QB) (25 July 2008)

Eady J said that it was necessary to have well in mind the nature of bulletin board communications. This was central to a proper consideration of the matters before the court. Particular characteristics which he said he should have in mind were that:
Bulletin boards were:

*read by relatively few people, most of whom would share an interest in the subject matter;

*rather like contributions to a casual conversation (the analogy sometimes being drawn with people chatting in a bar) which people simply noted before moving on;

*often uninhibited, casual and ill-thought out; those who participated knew this and expected a certain amount of repartee or "give and take".

The participants in bulletin board exchanges were mostly using pseudonyms (or "avatars"), so that their identities were often not known to others. This was no doubt a disinhibiting factor affecting what people were prepared to say in this special environment.

The judge commented that when considered in the context of defamation law, therefore, communications of this kind were much more akin to slanders than to the usual, more permanent kind of communications found in libel actions. People did not often take a "thread" and go through it as a whole like a newspaper article. They tended to read the remarks, make their own contributions if they felt inclined, and to think no more about it.

Eady J commented that the analogy with slander had led him, at the hearing on 12 May 2008, to refer to "mere vulgar abuse". He said that from the context of casual conversations, one could often tell that a remark was not to be taken literally or seriously and was rather to be construed merely as abuse. That was less common in the case of more permanent written communication. However, in the case of a bulletin board thread it was often obvious to casual observers that people were just saying "the first thing that comes into their heads and reacting in the heat of the moment". The remarks were often not intended to be serious or to be taken as such.

The judge commented that in a number of the cases before him, there would be strong defences of qualified privilege or fair comment, or arguments along the lines of "mere vulgar abuse". While these issues were not before him at the moment, since none of the defendants had issued an application for summary judgment or to strike out any claims, they had to weigh heavily in the exercise of the court's discretion and case management powers.

Eady J said that the remarks made on the bulletin board by the multiple defendants were not simply made in a vacuum. Any reader would know the context and recognise the conduct on Mr Smith's part which was being characterised as "appalling" and be able to form their own view of it. Accordingly, Mr Smith's reputation in the eyes of such a person was likely to depend primarily on what he himself had done, rather than on what others were saying about it.

On the facts, Eady J considered, for example, with regard to some of the specific postings complained of, that:

*There would be a good argument that Mr Wynne Pearce had a defence of fair comment on a matter of public interest, since he had been trying to help Dr Jekyll, in light of his professional experience as a solicitor.

*Mr Hanham's comments, within the particular bulletin board thread, amounted to a classic case of qualified privilege and fair comment.


VoR said...

Bankruptcy, perhaps brought about by losing a legal battle and becoming liable for the defendant's costs, can lead to repossession of houses on bridge lane... Every cloud has a silver lining....

wondering from afar said...

I've got a simple question to ask. Does CH actually think that he will be able to go back to Golders Green and be a leader after all this? Does he think anyone will take him seriously? Why is he wasting time and money to go to court? If he gets a few people in trouble for some strong words that were perhaps over the top, and a few pounds compensation, will he then be an accepted leader?

What a joke!

Moderating Tickle said...

Would the legal representative who just posted that he is representing one of the commenters named in the CO please email: iytulegaldefence@hushmail.com

Anonymous said...

GD
If RCH wanted a fight and thought he could win he could have gone after the GD rabbonim.
But that is not his aim. He is after revenge for all the anonymous posters here, and all he will do will be to name them. He has deep pockets which you cant match, and you havent really got a good defense like the Judge said of why you should all remain anonymous. To stop google would be a waste of money because the Judge has already spoken.
I am sure some of you wouldnt like it to be known that you use the net. You most likely even attended the asifah. Others wont want there bosses even if theyre Jewish to know or even their wives. This is really all RCH will do.

Not my Frand said...

Rumour has it that Reb Chuna himself is collecting money for CH. Without going into details, and on the off chance any potential donors to the Halpern legal fund are reading this: Just realise that your donation is going to destroy careers and wreck families. Imagine someone was fired because they wrote a comment here - if you have given money to support CH, then you can give your excuses about Reb Chuna all day long but it is YOU who are responsible for the ruined lives. That the Union leadership knew about this and are perfectly happy to send more families to the dogs just to carry on their evil path is beyond shocking.

arkuois said...

As this blog is being scrutinised and we my end up in Belmarsh I will speak bderech kovoid. Lechvoid Horav Hagaon Shlit'a you mention you are innocent as your methods are done under the auspices of the Amshinover Rebbe. However which Rav allows you to go to Arkuois?
And to you Dear Morah Dasrah you played ping pong with BHDC in and out of the union. That is because as the victims are not publicly known you can still use your under the carpet methods even in public. However here when a Rov is moiser lfnei am veida 30 bloggers to the high court which doch is lshitoscha worse then sex abuse where are you now?

in sooo much pain said...

Chaimke You know very well what you have done was bang out of order, and the way you are covering it up is simply not helping you either.
You have dragged down our community with you evil stubborn behaviour. there is no way you will ever regain credibility by us in NW London, you have let us all down and you have ashamed your family.
None of us has had a normal day at work, none of us have had a normal Shabbos, you have totally broken us.
Stop being so shtoltz and just move on and let us live our life in piece.

Klishlishi said...

Their Lordships absolutely loved and respected the Orthodox Jew who was familiar with British Law and Jewish Law and who presented and spoke well eg Mordechai Miller, Solomon Schonfeld, Immanuel Jakobovits and Isaac Bernstein.

It is said that Lubavitch only won their internal-swipe 40,000 book Hassidic Library court case because of the calibre of presentation of once Chief Rabbi-material Louis Jacobs who Chabad called in to give expert testimony.

Does there exist anymore anyone in Anglo-Jewry who is capable of explaining from first principles to a M'lud and Jury the terms 'gilui daas', 'hilchos yichud', 'mesirah', 'Hassidic minhag' etc etc, liberally peppered with Tenach quotations, which the Kabbalah says the soul of the non-Jew is absolutely craving to hear from the committed Jew, and which indeed may be the Divine Bigger Purpose behind the whole episode.

A retired Jonathan Sacks would be good, but not having been soaked in Torah from birth, his not quite unequivocal commitment and mastery of the loshon would come through. How about a R.Grunfeld of Gateshead-type? http://www.gatesheadkolel.org/videos.html

dynamitten fm oxford with a streimel said...

actually to clarify, in the usa u r protected in 2 ways.

Firstly it is harder to gain the ip addresses as an order because of freedoms within the constitution. To show how ridiculous this is, in a divorce, u cannot gain access to facebook in a custody fight, even if it shows abhorrent behavior, but u can get access if it shows some financial discrepancy.

Secondly the defense of fair comment (privilege) extends almost to any person of any interest, subject to no malice.

while i had not wished to become an involved party, i feel saddened by the attempt to stifle mostly fair comment, & suggest that the blog be removed to the usa with a slightly stronger censorship of crass comments.

dynamitten fm oxford with a streimel said...

Case Law
TY
presumably the solicitors / barristers have already opined.
an interesting case, but the longevity of comments expressed here & the number of times malice has clearly been injected with enough precise allegations differentiate the two situations in degree.

SH educated
u r slightly mistaken. RCH does not need to prove he was unjustly defamed. he has to prove he was defamed. Thereafter the defamers have to prove it was 'just' (truth) or made as fair comment (notably without malice). A subtle switch of presumption, nevertheless an important one to recognise.

RCH will not be taking the GD to trail both because it would be in effect a criminal trial with a much lower burden to prove his guilt & the GD stuck pretty much to what they heard rather than to some of the obscenities mouthed by bloggers, & secondly they clearly were without malice so expressed fair comment about a public figure.

There will also (in practice if not in law) be some confusion if he is shown to have incited the crowd with comments of his own.

Were he to take just the particular bloggers he mentions (with their excessive comment) to trial he will look ridiculous, so i believe this is just a legal ploy to ensure the closure of Tickle's blog.

Fruit cakes at grodzinski said...

I guess some people may get into terrible trouble for being obnoxious on this and other blogs. But they were the attackers, even if they believed the man they were attacking was guilty. If they are so pure in their intent, just tell the court that your rabbis (the GD five and the others mentioned) seemed to be urging a holy war against Rabbi Halpern and like all misguided mindless fundamentalists you plunged into the fray. Nobody would go to jail for following the holy self-righteous clerical leaders.
This is all a fishing expedition to find out who is behind the allegations and who released them to the halfwitted commenters and the well-meaning IFYU

Super said...

CH doesn't intend going to court as this would not help him. What he suspects and presumably he has good reason to suspect this, is that some of the posters are connected to the GD Rabbonim. He also presumably knows that a certain percentage of what has been written has been exaggerated or even made up. If this is true and he can prove it, this would show that this is an orchestrated targeted campaign. This would harm the GD Rabbonim and their arguments.

Abramson said...

Why do so many people think that blogs sort out problems in the community?
Besides giving a platform to a lot of twits with grievances imagined or otherwise,blogs are not the right medium.
Trouble yourself to approach the askonim and Rabbonim and you may succeed.
Tapping out a few comments and hiding behind a nom de plume,is this not a lazy and cowardly way of going about things?

Puzzled said...

Asking a court to make google reveal names. Is this mesirah?
How can anybody be so stupid to think so?

Rashi said...

Rashi Parshas Mishpotim Posuk Alef:

before them: But not before gentiles. Even if you know that they [gentiles] judge a certain law similarly to the laws of Israel, do not bring it to their courts, for one who brings Jewish lawsuits before gentiles profanes the [Divine] Name and honors the name of idols to praise them (other editions: to give them importance), as it is said: “For not like our Rock [God] is their rock, but [yet] our enemies judge [us]” (Deut. 32:31). When [we let] our enemies judge [us], this is testimony to [our] esteem of their deity. — [From Tanchuma 3]

Yid said...

Can anyone explain how having the IP addresses helps CH. Would he not then need another court order against the ISP's to give him more details on each IP and even then, he probably won't get a name out of it, as they often won't have that info.

Addicted said...

Slightly off topic, but worth having a read:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/9872924/C4s-Jewish-abuse-documentary-didnt-tell-the-whole-story.html

Aleck said...

Comparing the efforts to clear the name of Reb Chaim to the Maccaba v Lichtenstein case shows how badly the matter has been understood by some.

The problems in following blogs is that you can spend a lot of time reading opinions which are of no consequence,and posted by people with a very limited intellect.

Realist said...

Abramson said...

"Trouble yourself to approach the askonim and Rabbonim and you may succeed."

You are either deluded or never been involved. if you are involved in anything which even smells of scandal, either you wont be able to find a single rav or askan to assist you, and if you do find one decent guy, I guarantee you that he will spend more time covering his back than helping you deal with the issue at hand.

Bill S said...

Methinks that the next post will be called "Tickle Pickled"

Davidovitch said...

Regarding "rashi"'s comment regarding jewish lawsuits
Is google jewish?

Geronimo said...

VoR mentioned bankruptcy.
The pockets funding the action to clear RCH are quite deep enough.Dont be mislead about that.
You yourself have shown your true colours ,by hoping for the closing of a מקום תפילה ותורה.

Be very sure it ain't goin to 'appen.

Uneducated said...

How does an IP address reveal the identity of the person who used the computer?

Is the truth libelous? said...

If one of the commenters is a victim who speaks of her own ordeal, is this also called defamation?

Poshutte Yied said...

Shame on you "realist"

In one brief paragraph you have discredited and maligned all the high principled and selfless askonim and Rabbonim in our community.

Of course when you have a corrupt agenda then you'll write anything,even blatant lies and downright rotten insults.

Askan said...

In reply to ' is the truth libellous '
An absolutely true account of a victim is definitely not libellous. Repetition of hearsay might be.
Having said that is a blog the best place to broadcast a victim's story?

I'm sure that most Rabbonim would advise against it.

Is the truth libellous? said...

Thank you Askan for your reply. If this blog is not about hearing the truth, then what are we all doing here? I think that if we heard firsthand testimony from the victims, we would have some kind of closure. Ein Simcha Kehataros Hasefeikos - There is no greater joy than the resolution of doubt.

Realist said...

Poshutte Yied said...
Shame on you "realist"

I take your point. But I am speaking from personal experience.

beis din rulling expected in 3 weeks said...

What will happen if the Beis Din rule that CH is not fit to be a Rav?

Unbiased said...

When I opened this blog today the first thing I saw was a heartbreaking letter from a purported victim.
The blog author prefaces it with his own comments.
He says that he can't vouch for the veracity of the letter but that the raw emotion it displays warrants its publication.
If the letter is of dubious veracity it should not be displayed on a site where it could unfairly put RCH in a bad light.
We don't need reminding that there are victims of abuse,I'm pretty sure most people are aware of that.

To use such a letter to arouse awareness of abuse in the Jewish community at the risk of unfairly evoking negative sentiment against Rabbi Halpern is in my humble opinion ,not right at all.

I would like to suggest that in the name of fair play and correctitude,this letter should be deleted from the IFTU.

non-apikores said...

What will happen if the Beis Din rule that CH is perfectly fit to be a Rav?

Danny Locks said...

My advice to all is to delay as much as possible. Hopefully once the psak from the BD is announced, it will all be over

Absolutely Anonymous said...

There have been previous posts on this blog claiming that some of the bloggers on this blog were none other than the accused or at least their close associates.

If this is the case then for the accused to get a court order on the grounds that comments on this blog are libellous is entrapment as the accused themselves contributed to the discussions.

If the previous guesses had some basis I would ask for a court order to reveal the names / IP addresses of the purported members of the other camp who have been blogging and then use this material to counter sue.

Anon said...

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/102618/arrest-barnet-over-suspected-sex-assault

News? said...

A new and unexpected name joins, if true.
http://www.bhol.co.il/Article.aspx?id=51191

The Red Baron said...

If correct, it seems certain that one of the victims has decided that the circus has gone on long enough and complained to police.
I suspect that CH has a great deal more to worry about than a few words on a blog.
Now that the genie is out of the bottle and he's facing a potential custodial sentence, perhaps he'll focus on how he survives this.
Either way, whatever the truth of the matter, this is going to be the Chillul Hashem of all time.
Anyone who was seen to have tried to supress it should now be seriously looking over their shoulders.....becaus the police will be looking to sweep up as many as they can. All it'll take is for one person to speak .... and the whole gescheft is done.

Bill from the Hill said...

The 3 arrests for perverting the course of justice are scary....

Does this mean CH's supporters who were just following their Rov can be taken too? I realise CH is guilty but I don't wanna see tons of ppl go down in flames

BLBH supporter said...

There has now been a further attack on Hager's noticeboard, with R' Hager's notice having been removed and some damage done.

I hope that the criminal intent of some of those supporting RCH is highlighted.

Maybe someone can suggest how this can be stopped for good, by finding those responsible and dragging them up to Colindale Police Station. If the supporters of RCH want to indulge in open thuggery, then let them do so and take the consequences.

This whole matter has now been inflamed exponentially, by the present legal action, and I think that we need to know the full names of those who still remain in DC, those who forced R'Padwa to retract his notice, those who paid for the Beis Din and the Toen, and those who are wasting money on lawyer's fees in supporting this action, which could have been better spent on the urgent needs of the community.

These people need to be publicly isolated from our community.

Stick to facts, but start naming those responsible.

Amos Wittenberg said...

I would like to sound a word of extreme caution.
1. Pre-trial talk in public about anyone being guilty seriously endangers the chances of conviction.
2. A good barrister will make the most of that.
3. Let the police do their job.
4. Let HKB"H do his job.
5. It is time to tear kria for the churbon which has befallen all of us.
6. Let us all do our job.
7. Tomorrow's ta'anis comes not a day too early.

NWL Barrister said...

The application against Google for disclosure of the identity of IYTU and others could scarcely have been more misguided.

It was a monumentally bad decision on the part of CH's supporters and it has backfired spectacularly.

I do not doubt for one minute that the decision on the part of the alleged victim(s) to make a formal complaint to the police was a direct result of CH's attempts to use the courts to close down legitimate debate.

The Red Baron said...

NWL Barrister said...

I do not doubt for one minute that the decision on the part of the alleged victim(s) to make a formal complaint to the police was a direct result of CH's attempts to use the courts to close down legitimate debate.

>>Agreed. The timing is too cooincidental. I suspect that the victims were consistently told that let the BD do it's job and the story will quietly disappear along with anyone found guilty.
It appears that the faith of the victims is no longer there, and rightly the police have been informed.
At least there will now be a fully impartial investigation, and if any criminality has occured it must now be fully exposed.
As to those who 'followed their Rov's' advice, surely this doesn't include alleged criminal damage, witness tampering and perverting the cause of justice.
We all have brains and the ability to know right from wrong. If your Rov told you to hold up Barclays Bank, would you? It's no excuse.
Neither is the use of money to batter into submission any opposition. Yet after this is all over, I wonder how quickly with the deepest pockets will get re-accepted into the inner circle. A day or two?
In reply to what to do about mindless vandalism at Hagers? Get a £30 mini-cam and put it in the corner. It's not hard to do..really.

Beware!! said...

The police have arrested 2 others in SH today, also closely connected to the pro-CH campaign.

Now that the arrests have started, everyone should carefully consider their positions. If, for example, you gave money to assist in the recent high court action, or paid towards the cost of a toi'en, you could be seen as having been a part of a concerted campaign to obstruct justice, or to pervert the course of justice. If you belittled evidence revealed on this blog by posting a comment (and we now know how easy it is to obtain IP addresses), you could be seen as having been a part of a concerted campaign to obstruct justice, or to pervert the course of justice, particularly if your IP address reveals you to be a person who had good reason to believe that there was a case to be made against CH. If you persisted in davening at BHDC, and loudly proclaimed your support for CH, even after having heard recordings etc, and especially if you labelled alleged victims as liars or fantasists, you could be seen as having been a part of a concerted campaign to obstruct justice, or to pervert the course of justice. In short, if any of your actions over the past 6+ months could be construed as having slowed down the wheels of justice, you could be seen as having been part of a concerted campaign to obstruct justice, or to pervert the course of justice, and you could be on a list of people who are of interest to the current police investigation.

As for now, all I can advise is - keep your distance. Now that the arrests have taken place, even the smallest and seemingly most insignificant act that could nevertheless be somehow interpreted as witness intimidation or as tampering with evidence will be considered a criminal act, and the chances are you could be arrested.

Beware!!!

dynamitten said...

@Beware!! said
r u stifling comment in support of RCH?
How utterly ironic.

Beware!! said...

@dynamitten

I'm stifling nothing. You can do and say as you please, it's a free country, but just be aware that your actions and words have implications beyond the safe confines of a computer screen or a conversation at the back of shul. And I note that Tickle has also started to be careful on the blog - no reference has been made to CH's innocence OR guilt on this blog for quite a few days already.

barry said...

Now that there is police involvement, please be even more circumspect in what you say and what you write.

Martin said...

Will they be having Kedassia meals sent in?

Emess said...

Now that the police are involved, it is very important that all the woman come forward to show that orthodox jewish people don't cover up sex offences.

The Channel 4 program alledged that we cover up these things: the arrested today are accused of coverup and furthers this allegation.

We must show that we work with police to deal with crimes. Not least because of our legal duty as loyal citizens. We need the police to provide a secure envirnment for us to live in peace.

If you tickle has already published the letter of Rabbi Dovid Cohn who has urged all the victims to GO TO THE POLICE.

purim rebbe said...

Well at least it wasn't the Charity Commission!

some hope?! said...



The London Metropolitan Police’s Barnet Borough Commander, Adrian Usher, said: “In Barnet, we are currently working with members of all our communities to ensure the voices of victims of abuse are heard. My message to those victims is simple: Come forward and we will listen to, support and believe you.”

Anonymous said...

What bearing do today's events have on the Google issue please?