Friday, 22 May 2015

“A Victim’s Perspective”

The following is a letter from one of Todros Grynhaus’s victims who testified at the trial when Grynhaus was convicted. The letter is addressed to 3 named so called ‘askonim’ who were involved in Grynhaus’s defence. The letter was written during the first trial when the jury were unable to reach a verdict. Grynhaus was convicted this week after a second trial.

This letter is published with the written consent of its author.

[Name and address]


8th March 2015


Dear Mr [], Mr [] & Mr []


I am addressing this letter to you, as part of the leading askonim looking to protect, defend and ultimately exonerate the notorious criminal in regards his current court case; I am aware that there are many other askonim involved and I am happy that they all take note of the points I put forward. Of course we are all mindful of that fact, that now that case has started, there is little your team can actually do, aside sitting and fidgeting in the public gallery each day, encouraging and inspiring your hero, giving him as much moral support as you can, whilst simultaneously absorbing the level of depravity your hero accomplished.

I don’t want to waste your time (though clearly you have lots of it) arguing the spuriousness of your belief. If the Leaders of our Community, those that are able to see the big picture, those that have access to so much detail, and who have been privy to so much material and information,  have been unable to convince you of the colossal miscalculation in your warped thinking, what hope do I, a layman of the community have?

So the purpose of this letter is not to attempt to convince you to ‘change sides’; it is very apparent that none of you have any experience in dealing with victims of abuse so it impossible for you to empathise with them. More worryingly by your misguided actions you have helped build a scenario where the abuser has become the victim and the abused have become the perpetrators.

So the purpose of this letter is simply to try and explain to you how the last few weeks have been from a victim’s perspective.

Let’s recap: A person I trusted, a person in a position of authority betrayed and abused me. The fact that this was committed over thirty years ago is mostly irrelevant. The fact that the crime took place in his family home; a mere few feet from his parents bedroom is perhaps slightly more related. The fact that it was not an isolated incident, not for me or for my fellow victims is central to this case.

For years I lived with self blame – I blamed myself for being friendly with his brother, I blamed myself for visiting their home every Shabbos and blamed myself for bring so weak and timid to fight back.  I blamed myself for the sexual abuse that occurred. I believed the abuse was somehow my fault. In some way, I felt my involvement became a significant factor leading to the abuse. I failed to see that victims are victims. My abuser started, maintained and pursued the abusive relationship from its conception until its ending.

Over time, I learnt the next step, that of acceptance. Accepting the fact, the fact that I was, and always will be, a victim of sexual abuse. For decades I didn’t want to admit it and so suppressed the memories. But I learnt that when a victim does not truly accept their traumatic past, it is pretty much impossible to reach the next step in the healing process. I learnt to move forward with life. I learnt that we can never change what happened in the past, yet we needed to deal with this current reality and start to live the rest of our lives.  And I learnt to be patient.

Can I ever forgive him? Up until two weeks ago I thought I could. I know he is (allegedly) human and humans make mistakes. I know that we all can make serious judgement errors and I also know that sometimes it the abused that themselves turn into abusers. Retribution and revenge in the form of many years behind bars will not take away the pain he caused, though if there is a concept of ‘closure’ then it is possible that a jail term would facilitate this.

But a fortnight into the trial I can now never forgive him. And I can never forgive you. For him to stand up in court, having been [] by one of the top QC’s in the United Kingdom, financed by money raised by your team and deny any wrongdoing is almost as sickening as the crime itself. To hear him stand up and emotionally declare himself candidate as ‘Dad-of-the-century’, to belittle his sickening deeds and to be the catalyst that may send out the message to our community that not only can you commit these heinous crimes, but that a group of Askonim will always be there to defend it, whatever and however, is in my opinion such a tragic error of judgement that it can only be explained by accommodating your complete and total ignorance to the subject. Or perhaps you do understand the severity of the crime, perhaps even if TG had been a member of ISIS and had chopped off the heads of twenty children in MH Car Park you would still have defended him as a ‘member of Family Klal Yisroel’ (end of quote).

I understand that the trial may end this week. Do I want him to be locked away for a long time? I have to be honest and say yes. Was this always my desire? Definitely not. Your collective sense of responsibility to defend a flawed member of Klal Yisroel in the manner that you have, has caused more damage than your limited intelligence will ever appreciate.

I can only hope that once this case is over, you hang up your ‘askonus’ boots and move back to eternal hibernation. The world in general and the Yiddishe world in particular will be a far safer place.

Yours sincerely

[Victim’s name]

71 comments:

Yidel said...

A very well written letter. Don't expect anything to change until the 'average joe' or Yossel, makes his feelings known to these askonim.
But they are petrified of speaking out for fear of being ostracised.

For example, lets see how Pardes parents react to the following:
It will be very interesting to see what happens now; after the 3 Halpern brothers Moishe, R'Duvid and guess who? Yes, you guessed right... 'Comeback Chaim' met the Rebbes of Pardes House primary this week, to discuss 'yiddish in the curriculum', but lets how the parents react when they hear that Chaim promised to come in to personally teach classes as a fact finding mission.
(I have confirmed this information with 3 different Rebbes that teach in Pardes).
Watch him get away with it, due to the average Pardes parent not challenge this travesty.

Yaakov said...

Who will ostracise them for speaking out against Charlie?

pardes house said...

Who will ostracise them for speaking out against Charlie?

People are scared to speak up, when the see who the people in charge are.

Nobody wants to stick his head above the parapet.

Anonymous said...

So, Yom Tov is over, and it seems like somebody is willing to stick his head above the parapet.
The esteemed Admur Elect, he of Radimishla kasho, the great brain and voice of reason in Golders Green, (aka porkie), gave a speech over Yom Tov, and I'm the most extreme terms called the Gateshead Rov, Rabbi Zimmerman, a 'moiser'!
...for giving evidence against one of the worst abusers and sex attackers, Anglo Jewry has ever seen!

Predictable, I know.

But where were the great and good of Golders Green to be seen and heard?
Did any of them walk out? Nah. Did any of them put him in his place? Nah. The great balli batim of Beis Shmuel, Reb 'hachunes' kept shtum.
Disgusting, despicable and disgraceful.
In the words of his great Zeide..

הואיל והוו יתבי בעלי בתים ולא מחו ביה - שמע מינה קא ניחא להו

spiral said...

Anonymous;
You'll find that there are straightforward honest people around.
Reb Gershon Hager critcised Porky in no uncertain terms yesterday.
He gave a very strong drushe praising the malchis shel chesed, and the necessity to report such crimes, especially when predators like todros show no remorse and are constantly getting away with it.
He was especially vocal as to the downright impudence and lack of real kovod Hatorah against the Gateshead Rov.

WITHOUT R SHIMON WEINGARTEN AND R GERSHON HAGER, GOLDERS GREEN IS AN IR HANIDUCHUS.

shmuel beis said...

Is this true? Reb Moshe halpern gave Todros Grynhaus a mi shebeirach on shabbos?

Me said...

Spiral & Anon (of 26/5/15 - 14:00)

Interesting that two Golders Green Rabbonim spoke about it. In Stamford Hill not a single Rov even dreamt of mentioning it. Proves that Stamford Hill is on a far higher level of kedusha and such things don't exist here.

y.b wankser said...

Me:
Stamford hill on a high level of kedusha? Astonishing!
You are deluded.
That's because you dont have a single decent tov in Stamford hill.
Shysters who take your money and look away when you lot fiddle your taxes benefits and then your kiddies in mikva.
They are possibly more corrupt than the rebbes they work for, and that takes alot of work, to be as corrupted and disgusting as most rebbes are.

Obviously the above is intended towards most but not all of the Ra bonim in Stamford hill. There may be a decent one somewhere, but he must be very quiet.

Me: Go back to your kennel

fedupwith69 said...

Such things don't exist here?
Are you crazy.
We live in the most disgusting corrupt community in Europe.
Wake up brother.

Answer this:
Which Ruv on the hill would you report to, if someone abused your kid, Chas v Shulem?


My Ruv btw, would be Reb Hackney police shlita.
And if you used my 'Ruv', you'd never get a job/aliye/place in school/shiddich.

And we're holy?!!!!!!!

Mirerman said...

Yet again the only Rabbonim to speak out are Rabbi Weingarten and Rabbi Hager. And Dayan Ehrentreau and the London Beis Din.

Yet again they are the only Rabbonim and poskim with backbone.

Why the silence from other 'senior' Rabbonim??

Lomdishe shiurim is fine but pales into insignificance compared to the fire raging.

We've seen the cowardice before. Surely the lessons have been learned?????

Refoel said...

Mirerman - those "senior rabbonim" are highly proficient in giving lessons, but sorely lacking when it comes to learning them.

Avrech said...

Having spoken to one of the above Rabonim, he stated to me clearly: It is up to the balei batim of every community and every shul to tell their own Rov, please come out clearly and unequivocally against predators of any sort, the more Rabonim hear, the more they will act.
You'd be surprised about how little a Rov will know 'whats going on', unless they're told. They are human too!
Any Rov that doesn't publicly, yes publicly, condemn Moshe Halperins remarks, is complicit in not just Kovod Hatorah and a Talmid chochim, but also has a hand in covering up abuse.

I've spoken to my Rov, have you spoken to yours?

Biglad said...

Some of these Rabbonim are worried what the olom will say about them. Gutless.

Reb Moshe's said...

When and where did MH speak about Todros? He did give a Mi Shebeirach for Todros - as a Choileh. Todros needs to be in jail for what he did but be also needs a Refua Shlaima as he's mentally unwell.

abusers are not ill they are bali aveira said...

I think todrus and others that commit such crimes are not ill.!

Is wanting something you can't have an illness?

Is being gay an illness?

Is wanting to eat treif an illness?

Is beating your wife an illness?

Is lying and cheating in business an illness?


We are a nishama in a gashmiesdiker body.

We learn and obey the torah. The torah teaches us morality and guidance for life. If we do some aveiros we end up contravening both the torah and uk law.

Todros didn't keep the torah and didn't keep uk law.

Until moshiach comes we can't enforce the toirah but certainly the uk government can enforce their laws and have every right to do so.

Anyone who is stupid enough to think the way to stop abuse is to have "words" with the abuser or send him to a "dr" is simply not living in the real world.

Abusers will most times do it again given the chance.

Not sometimes but most times! We must protect our children, that is paramount.


sickofchunas said...

Thanks for the drosha Mr Abusers are baalei aveira.
Quick question sir. If I may?
How exactly do you protect kids in a community where the Rov gets up and shouts mesira at those who do protect children?

Reb Moshe's said...

אפשר לקיים שניהם.

He can be both a bal aveira and deserving of harsh punishment including jail and still be unwell and in need a Refua.

Many if not most sexual predators need therapy as well as punishment because even the law recognises that they are unwell.

I have asked and asked and still not heard from one person in Reb Chunas who heard MH speak about Todros.

When exactly was this speech supposed to have happened?

trueyoiresh of rchuna said...

So what if R Moishe shlita cursed the Gateshead Rov.
He is also a Rov, and he has a right to his opinions.
We chose him as a Rov and however much you lot bash him, he will still continue to lead Golders Green.
What right does anyone have to criticize him.
He is well known as one of the most popular rabonim and clever person.
We are happy with him. Go away.

therightsideofbridgelane said...

Stop trolling yoiresh.
None of the mispallelim were man enough to stop Charlie giving a shiur in chunas shul, none of the mispallelim were man enough to stop porky taking on as your Rov, and none of your mispallelim are man enough to stand up to him now when he talks out of his intershte atora.
Take your mikva and your late minyonim and' peace off'

baisdin said...

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the ' Principal' comes in with an ' Alleged abuser' to thebRabbinate, and the abuser is given a 'severe dressing down' by messers greenhouse dinner and Padwa.

Eli said...

My guess is that “Yoiresh”’s comment is intended as satire, but let it be known that Porky is viewed with utter disdain by most of the GG UOHC-affiliated rabbonim. Even disregarding his wild behaviour during the “painful saga” (and he hasn’t given up yet), the man has been a pernicious presence in GG since he pitched up on the scene.

From his troublemaking over the eruv (his behaviour at the time had nothing in common with serious opponents, such as R. Feldman and R. Roberts), to his disgraceful outburst when R. Hershel Schachter arrived to daven in his shul (R. Schachter was greeted warmly by R. Roberts), to his generic bullying, financial and ethical lapses, embrace of assorted abusers and anger management issues, it’s clear that this man is barely more fit to serve in a rabbinic capacity than his brother.

Uri said...

Misplallim of Reb Chunas being scared of standing up to R Moishe and his saintly brother and his Pardes antics is one thing but that other local Rabbonim are too timid to stand up them is another issue completely.

This is the real issue - you are either a real leader or you are not.

It's time Rabbonim in NWL stopped leaving leadership to the same two Rabbonim and the LBD every time.

You can't pick and choose and then expect to be listened to. There is a reason why Kedassia ex kashrut is not taken seriously by 90% of NWL.

Show some leadership - don't hide!

Rebchunamispalel said...

Trueyoiresh - You're words are not true I am afraid.

You say ' we chose him as a Rov'...

Which mispallelim chose him? When was the vote? When did we choose him? Who drew up his contract? Who were the other candidates? When did the mispallelim of many years have their say regarding the new Rov?

We chose him???????

matok said...

Reb China mispallel:
YOU chose him by not speaking up.
YOU chose him by allowing him and his father in law to run around for 2 years causing havoc in London,
YOU chose him by not walking out during his stupid speeches.
YOU chose him by not davening elsewhere,
YOU have no right to beg for sympathy.

Timetoleave said...

@ Reb Chuna mispallel:

And now you let him change the Shul ladies entrance, too.

It was good for his father for over 70 years, didnt have a snius issue with it....

Y suddenly this smart move?

Chassidisheyied said...

Matok - we did NOT choose him. And you know that!!

Perhaps when you're new Ruv arrives soon from Lucerne he will sort out GG. I hope so!

YossiP said...

With all due respect to the contributors here, the Rav of RebChuna's shul is a peripheral figure in NWL. If you speak to any of the Adass Rabbonim none of them take him seriously.

The real problem is one of leadership.

Rabbonim in Golders Green and Hendon need to speak up loud and clear with regard to matters of the wider kehilla like sex abuse etc. Rabbonim cannot hide behind the veil of 'we don't get involved in things outside our shul and our school'.

Golders Greenest said...

YossiP – that’s exactly it. RMYG is de facto the “top” UOHC rov in GG. He’s the authority for Hatzolo, and the only one still serving out of those who signed the anti-GG eruv notice a few months ago.
 
Although he thankfully has backed “Shema Koli”, his behaviour during the Charlie episode was little short of shameful. The evidence from then seems to point towards him caring more about staying in the good graces of his amoral N16 chums than speaking out against abuse and abusers. If what I’ve heard in his name is correct, he regards promoting Kedassia as paramount uber alles.

The UOHC picture is not particularly encouraging in the rest of NW London either – R. Eisner is a fully fledged member of the dark side (the fact that the yungerleit in Ger still go to Charlie for shaalos tells you all you need to know) and R. Dovid Stern is never going to do anything that upsets his paymasters. Let’s just hope that RSW and RGH stick around to fight the good fight, or alternatively that Hendon Adass manage to achieve the near-impossible feat of appointing someone sensible, charismatic and decent.

JR said...

Totally disagree.

I'm sorry but this whole affair currently in Manchester is absolutely not his problem and has nothing to do with him.

He has a very choshuv kehilla and does not need to get involved in any way. Not his problem.

Elmslad said...

Goldersgreenest - Your wish may come true asap. Rabbi Deutsch is on the way to rescue the rabble....

Naftoli said...

> From his troublemaking over the eruv (his behaviour at the
> time had nothing in common with serious opponents, such as
> R. Feldman and R. Roberts), to his disgraceful outburst
> when R. Hershel Schachter arrived to daven in his shul
> (R. Schachter was greeted warmly by R. Roberts),

What happened when R Schachter came?

Golders Greenest said...

JR – The chashivus of his kehillah notwithstanding, RYMG clearly occupies a broader communal position, as illustrated by his hatzoloh role, and his signature on the anti-eruv notice.

In the same way as TG is not the Chief Rabbi’s problem, yet he wisely used this episode as a “teachable moment”, so too should our rabbonim. RSW’s piece in last week’s Oneg Shabbos is one way of doing so, as were RGH’s remarks to his baalebatim.

Seeing as, if anything, RYMG occupies a more prominent role than they do, and, as far as I’m aware, he has yet to go on record about how abuse should be combatted (with his lack of action against Charlie serving as a prime example), his silence thus far is deeply regrettable.

Danny said...

Silence was a shocking outcome in the Charlie affair. Silence is once again a shocking outcome in the Toddy affair.

Driveyid said...

The only way GG gets saved is if Rav Zimmerman moves here. He will shake up this place.

He's a proper Manhig.

YK said...

Golders Greenest - With due respect you are not talking sense.

His silence is irrelevant. Why should he comment? It's a Manchester issue not a Goldets Green issue. It has not relevance to him whatsoever.

End of story.

WhiteHouseExpress said...

Being a rabbi is clearly ain't all is cracked up to be.

Not a job for a good Jewish boy!!

Mancs said...

YK 'it's a Manchester issue not a Golders Green issue' .....

Really??? So why did the senior Rabbis in the neghbourhood speak about it to their communities over yomtov?

Why do they deem it an important point to discuss in public.

Golders Greenest said...

YK - TG was defended in court by a fellow member of the UOHC rabbinate (TG's father), who expressed an absolutely shocking view as to the correct approach to be adopted when dealing with child rapists (a "dressing down" by the beis din). If RYMG doesn't subscribe to that view (especially given that R. Padwa - a man RYMG defers to clearly adheres to a similar position), he has a responsibility to say so.

Naftoli said...

If the Cheif Rabbi can say the following surely surely our local Rabbonim could say it.....

"This kind of abuse is a stain on all of society and we are no less vulnerable to the scourge of sexual crimes than any other community,” he said. “Perpetrators of these crimes destroy lives and every one of us shares in the responsibility to protect victims and potential victims.
“As such, we must not only ensure that all incidents are reported to the police without delay, but that we must do everything in our power to promote a culture whereby reporting such crimes to the relevant statutory authorities is supported and encouraged.”

Blatterisboss said...

GoldersGreenest - Chill out man....Smell some snuff....

Golders Greenest said...

I am not bothered if you know who I am. You are most welcome to my home to debate me whilst sharing my snuff. The fact is that I am ashamed of this silence. It was deafening after Charlie and it is deafening now for a second time. Silence encourages abusers, calling the police and taking on Union folk who are mechal shem shomayim in court discourages abusers. Silence is not the sign of a leader, shouting from the pulpit and issuing a letter is the sign of a leader. Standing up for a corrupt kashrus authority that rips off kosher housewives is not leadership. Saying what the Union really is is leadership. We are a community not a kollel. We are not Gateshead and we are not Stamford Hill.



Golders Greenest said...

Just to be clear, the Golders Greenest of 21:36 is not the author of the previous comments under that name.

Naftoli said...

Just to be clear, the Naftoli of 19:50 is not the author of the previous comments under that name.

UOHC Parole officer said...

Will Naftoli also be Invited to Golders Greenest to partake in his snuff? If so, when? If not, why not?

BarryG said...

I trust that the snuff used by Golders Greenest has a Kedassia kashrut he hushed ? Don't bring it to shut otherwise!

HillBilly said...

May I politely suggest that in addition to the rugelech and snowcrest crisps on offer each Thursday morning at the Union meetings that henceforth an assortment of snuff is on offer too.

Fedup said...

Who is this Rabbi Deutsch from Israel coming to the H Adath?

Is he another Union outpost or will he stand up to them on the eruv like a real man??

Reddevil said...

Is snuff on the menu in HMP Strangeways Manchester?????

YossiP said...

Golders Greenest is a highly intelligent man, Probably one of the cleverest around. When he has something to say people around him listen.
Please don't poke fun.

menahel said...

Pardes House parents:
What are the child protection policies in your esteemed institution?
If family Halperin are in charge, are you comfortable with that?!

Eruvman said...

The Eruv while definitely Kosher definitely has serious reasons to be machmir more than Eruvim in smaller towns and cities.

If this was not the case, surely Rabbonim such as Reb Berel Knofler who is nut affiliated to the Union, would allow it and not be trying to build a new Golders Green Eruv like he is doing.

I understand Rabbi Deutch will be ambivalent about the Eruv.

Dov said...

I have not seen ever a child protection document nor a child protection policy from the school and I have 2 sons there.

Is it being published ?

greenamous said...

Dov; dov, dov, dov.

Have you asked the school?
What's wrong with people?

fefferkorn said...

Golders green have a lot to answer for. In 20 years they have produced very little in askanus besides for a shomrim car which almost caused an anschluss in stamford hill.Except for a few struggling individuals who with great pains have succeded in obtaining housing for schooling they have very little to show. Stamford hill with all its problems had dozens of beautiful binyonim. Golders green's 'merkaz' is a tsekrochener building fulling to bits. No chasina hall or even barmitzva hall. The rebbes are imported from Stamford hill. All they do in gg is poke fun at Sh. When in fact gg have much more benefit from Sh whether by way of parnusso or services inc kedassia hechser, then Sh take from gg (for each pound from frishwasser there are 3 from Sh) abuse, molestation bla bla is all over the place but in Sh they are 10 rabonim for every 100 and not an entire chareidy community dependant on one family. The make up of gg kehilla was a breeding ground for a rov to do as he saw fit and that is why he is still around today. To be fair since then there have been subtle changes with the emergence of new off shoots. But overall gg need a serious shakeup in putting askunis and money into this kehilla which unfortunately has serious failings which could of been avoided. Gateshead and Manchester have also shteiged over the years but gg the richest of them all for some reason is just stuck in a time warp with light fittings from the 1960,s. Before you attack this comment think and hopefully something constructive will come out of it.

Golders not Greenest said...

Pfefferkorn, I second that. For all our problems we are resourceful to a degree that they can only dream of. The UOHC may be rotten at its core but they are a laughing stock and few of their rabbonim make much of a local difference. Each chasidus relies on its dayan with Padwa and co filling the occasional gap. By contrast, the GGers are enslaved to the rotten Halperns and fogeys like Roberts who'd both be laughed out of the Hill. Golders Green swears by its rabbonim while Stamford Hill swears at them.

And don't start bringing up benefits because you're up to your eyeballs in it just like we are but at least we don't pretend otherwise. And we don't holiday in Spain with the proceeds. We all know how straight you lot are since the country's biggest bankrupt at the time was practically running your schools. The joke in Stamford Hill is that in Golders Green they shake hands for Gut Shabbos because they don't trust each other on their word.

Keep your Reich fress, your sadiger egomaniacs, and Halpern mafia. You hire your mlamdim from Stamford Hill because you can't be sure of your own but when you want  real jobs you all come over here. 

Of course we come to queue at the Freshies door but that's only to take back a small part of what they make on us in their local blocks. You guys however appoint one of them as a rov! Just ask around whether people prefer Berger or Freshie for a landlord and you'll quickly discover the difference. 

So you terribly nice people over there, keep up your £8000 kidushs but flock over to us for measly yortzayt seudos to establish your chasidish credentials. Auf viederzen in Bournemouth in your peak caps and I promise to tell no one what you look like in a midriff gartel over a bursting jacket.

פי האסון said...

TG broke the law, for which he can receive a prison sentence in the interest of public safety. It doesn't preclude his mental status.

The real criminals are his parents, and the UK Rabbinate, who have all been aware of his "tendencies", yet did nothing about it.

פי האסון said...

What planet do you come from?

Nobody chose him! His father forced him upon us.

Popular?!? He's about as popular as the Vice Squad in a brothel.

DZC said...

Fefferkorn - Chutzpah you have.....

On what basis do you have the audacity to say:

"....the make up of the GG kehilla was the breeding ground for the 'Rov' to do as he saw fit and that is why he is still around today......"

What does that mean????????

volvi said...

פי האסון
Welcome back, its been a long time.
I'm emotional.
Where's velvel?

HillBilly said...

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/may/28/hasidic-sect-london-mothers-stop-driving

You couldn't make it up...........

Shloimie said...

fefferkorn

Much is true, but if you think Stamford Hill is such a wonderful place you are seriously mistaken. We may have bred this dangerous R' Chaim, but it was mainly your women who were so simple as not to realise that what he was doing was wrong. It is your wonderful Rabunim who still defend him and so do many of your baalei battim and amazingly your womenfolk.

The Freshwaters are big donors, but in no way are they the pillars of all the moisdos. I would venture to say that they probably give more money to Stamford Hill than to GG. You are basically a bunch of takers and every single day our streets are full of your collectors who depend on our generosity. You stingy SHillers give virtually zero to our moisdos.

You have built up such a wonderful kehilla, that the numbers of your boys and girls going off the derech and many seriously so are amazingly high. Perhaps they can see through the hypocrisy in your lives. We have some going off in GG to, but in the main, the younger generation is becoming more religious.

You have the advantage of having a more unified kehilla under the UOHC, at least in theory, whereas we are more split and I believe this has limited certain improvements in our area. However, at least we can breathe and join a kehilla we believe in whereas you are stuck.

Gererbridgelane said...

Fefferkorn. -

Who's laughing now????

S Hill has the country's Education Minister on its back as of this afternoon.....

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/ministers-investigate-jewish-sects-bid-to-stop-women-driving-to-school-10283970.html

We have enough problems without you lot creating more!!!!!!

eton boater said...

Are women allowed to drive to outlet to pick up dayan ecksteins belzer Fed meat? #Taliban

YossiP said...

Thank you Stamford Hill. You're a bunch of utter morons.

Orthodox Jewish women driving ban unacceptable, says Nicky Morgan
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32935767

Vey said...

My question is; how did this leak to the Press?

Usually it's the JC, but not this time; Jonathan Pollard (Chief Editor), seemingly reluctantly, wrote a column in The Daily Telegraph this past Shabbos;
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11639632/Why-Im-embarrassed-by-a-sects-ban-on-women-drivers.html) where he proclaims his sheer and utter embarrassment, and makes it very clear that Belz do not represent British Jewry. Subsequently, this probably rules out anyone who is anti-religious/chareidi.

So how could it have leaked? Us Golders Greeners only heard about it from the National Media...

Vey said...

* I meant 'Stephen Pollard'

Female driver said...

Bechadrei charedim first published the letter in Hebrew and failed messiah subsequently broke the story in English. He has an article moaning that the JC took it from him and broke it as an exclusive neither crediting him or bechadrei charedim.

Vey said...

Does Failed Messiah realise that he has caused so much more hatred of Jews in Britain now?

Jews, as a flipping WHOLE, are now compared with Muslim extremists who attempt to force Sharia Law on their surroundings.

Thank you, Failed Messiah!

ConsideringYHformydaughter!!!!!! said...

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b71f69e201b7c7960b07970b-pi

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b71f69e201bb083a3d34970d-pi

ConsideringYHformydaughter!!!!!! said...

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b71f69e201b7c7960ade970b-pi

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b71f69e201b7c7960b07970b-pi

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b71f69e201bb083a3d34970d-pi

Boardretiree said...

This is why our Charedi rabbonim in GG ought to be screaming not silent -

http://www.jewishcommunitywatch.org/to-rabonim-and-askonim-from-a-victim-of-todros-grynhaus/